|
|
Post by zephine on Feb 13, 2005 16:13:05 GMT
...and it's far easier to see an eighteen year old Gavin with a sixteen year old than a Gavin in his thirties... On the other hand, it could be a almost eighteen-year-old who lied about his age saying he was in his early twenties and then you've got Gavin who is also rather pre-disposed to lying about his age... |
|
|
|
Post by Kanna on Feb 14, 2005 2:17:40 GMT
Perhaps some George Michael- esque indecent exposure?  ~choke~ ~giggle~ I wonder what his favourite brand of chocolate bar is... On the other hand, it could be a almost eighteen-year-old who lied about his age saying he was in his early twenties and then you've got Gavin who is also rather pre-disposed to lying about his age... That's beautiful. Thank you. |
|
|
|
Post by The Manager on Feb 16, 2005 13:49:14 GMT
Ahhh continuity errors!!!!! I think most of these appeared with the change of writers post series 5, although the Christmas special has the most glaringly obvious ones. As the centre (in the first episode) was supposed to have been opened in 1991 not 1989 as the special suggested, teamed with julie and the wrong sets it's was a bit of a mess (lovely storyline though!!!!) As for Gavin's age, that's always flumoxed me because there was no way that in series 4 Gavin was 25 (as can be worked out from what Jenny says about them). That would make him 21 in series one and theoretically would make Tim about 18 at that time (that I could believe though) the trouble is he didn't look it (and that I've tied Tim marriotts aporximate age to around 45 - 47 (as of 2005) given that he says on his website about sneeking out of school in 1975 to go to a Who concert so I estimated he was between 16 and 18 then) which makes him being one year younger then Brittas more plausable given Chris Barrie is nearly 45 (although he wouldn't thank me for saying that ) although the actors real ages often have no relevance to the age of the character (eg. in harry potter Christian coulson's Character Tom Riddle is supposed to be 16 and yet the actor was 23 when he played him), but then Brittas himself was supposed to have been born in April 1958 (see series 2 episode one) which would make Gavins DOB (given his age of 36 in S7) 1961 making him 33 in series 4 and not 25!!!!! Quite frankly I've just completely confused myself! My head hurts!!!! |
|
Elf
Pool Attendant
Posts: 36
|
Post by Elf on Mar 9, 2005 20:53:43 GMT
Ok, I can't help but wade in here.
I've always figured ('always' being since seeing GFRIP) that his...misdemeanor had to do with his sexuality and the fact that the chances are pretty high that he grew up on an army base/in an army town. And there isn't anywhere in the world that gossip spreads faster than Forces bases. So something like underage sex plus the total scandal in a non-gay-friendly Army PLUS the fact that if the Dad hasn't spoken to Peter for years and years because HE didn't join the army, the chances of him being particularly lenient on Gavin seem slim.
And I think i may have thought about this for faaaaar too long ;D
Elf
xx
|
|
|
|
Post by Kanna on Mar 10, 2005 10:38:24 GMT
Ok, I can't help but wade in here. I've always figured ('always' being since seeing GFRIP) that his...misdemeanor had to do with his sexuality Yes, I think that's a given, or else marrying Jenny wouldn't have had so many advantages. Marrying some nice, convenient girl a very pretty thing to do, even then, but it is realistic, and Gavin, for all he's my favourite, strikes me as having a fairly weak character in some ways. Do they have army towns in the UK? I never realised... It suddenly strikes me that I always think of Gavin's father as permanently retired, like the Majors and Colonels in Agatha Christie or Richmal Crompton. ~grin~ Odd, how my mind works. Oh, yes yes yes. I know RIP:GF messes with continuity a lot, but retrospectively it really does work with Gavin's characterisation. He always seemed more circumspect than Tim, right from the first episode (although the last episode of S1 would certainly encourage him in that) - half the time Tim seems to want to cut the crap and be open about things. (Especially thinking of "Pregnant" here... he seemed defiant, but definitely not unhappy to have things brought out in the open.) Gavin, though... given the double whammy of an early court case plus the kind of father who cuts people out of the family for not coming up to traditions of masculinity, and bearing in mind that fitness is both the kind of industry known for attracting queer folk of both sexes *and* for homophobic hysteria on the part of clients... Can't really blame him for being closer to being closeted, especially with his parents. And I sympathise. I do. For a while I was in the absurd situation of being out to everyone except my parents, too... Hee. As you can see, I'm in no position to point fingers... I love GF:RIP to death, because we almost get more characterisation of Tim and Gavin in one epsiode than we had in six seasons beforehand. Continuity be damned, I couldn't live without it. |
|
Elf
Pool Attendant
Posts: 36
|
Post by Elf on Mar 10, 2005 19:39:43 GMT
Yeah! Continuity Schmontinuity. I totally know what you mean about his character being slightly 'weak'. There were times I wanted to slap him and get him to stand up for himself/Tim/the staff. There are army towns in the UK, or towns which are close to major army bases that are largley populated by army families. Lots of purpose built housing etc. And if your posted abroad then the often live on bases. Lots of my cousens are army brats  Hotbeds of gossip though - especially if gossip is about a senior officer (As G's father would have been) So yes, I imagine Gavin would stay firmly in the closet until he was sure of other people. I also think that he probably has had a sense of respect for senior figures beaten into him (possibly not literally ) And I'm glad i've finally got people to think about these things far too hard with ;D Elf xx |
|
|
|
Post by Kanna on Mar 20, 2005 14:25:41 GMT
I'm not so very sure it wouldn't be literal.
Poor pet. I don't really blame him for being cautious, under the circumstances, and lying about *everything* from whether he touched the stars on the notice board to what he does isn't the worst of crimes. The engagement fits in quite nicely with that.
Becoming a Tory politician is... both very right and very wtf. Poor Tim. I'm sure he didn't approve.
|
|
Elf
Pool Attendant
Posts: 36
|
Post by Elf on Mar 20, 2005 20:51:14 GMT
I'm not so very sure it wouldn't be literal. Well, no, neither am I. I just didn't want to force my view of angsty-childhood onto everyone else. Personally I think it's quite plausible that G didn't have the happiest of childhoods, especially when he started realising his sexuality and what it would mean. Especially if he had ever thought of joining the forces, or if that was ever expected of him. I've always kind of wondered about his lying. I mean, does he lie to Tim to protect Tim, because he knows Tim is pretty paranoid at times, or is Tim paranoid because Gavin lies to him? Otherwise, I think you're right. I think he probably found lying a pretty handy way to try and get out of trouble as a teen - especially justifying it by telling himself he was 'protecting' his family/himself from what was really hapening. The thing with the noticeboard always make me laugh though, because surely if he wanted to lose stars the easiest way would be to lie blatantly to Brittas, who would then 'punish' him by taking away the stars, no? I've always had the 'wtf' reaction - but I can see the politician angle, and I suppose, because they made it canon about going to public school etc, they figured he'd be a Tory. I guess it meshes up, really. Elf xx |
|
|
|
Post by Kanna on Mar 21, 2005 4:15:38 GMT
I just didn't want to force my view of angsty-childhood onto everyone else. I didn't mean to imply that Gavin was abused or that his childhood was angst-ridden, just that his father is authoritarian and traditional and there's a good chance corporal punishment was used on the boys at least. It's interesting to speculate on. His parents do seem to care for him very much, but it's also fairly clear that they've not exactly had the middle-class ideal of a family with close contact between adults and children: they're the kind of family that writes dutiful letters but don't talk. And if by what it would mean" you mean "disgrace and ostracisation from the family", I think you're absolutely right. And whatever the trouble was at the leisure centre would have promoted a panic reaction... It's not true, Mum, I'd never do a thing like that. ~grin~ Digging himself deeper all the time... Poor Gavin is a worrier. He'd probably be miserable. If Jenny hadn't become ill again (and I do think it's interesting that Gavin attached himself to a girl with absent and resented parents herself), I think Gavin would have ended up like so many before him, married to a nice girl he loves but with, um, lapses. Instead... he met Tim. ¢¾<br> Perhaps it's eldest sons only? Or his parents kind of secretly worried at the back of their minds that it might not be a sensible career for Gavin to pursue? Gavin's choice of job is interesting to me. It's very, very working class and anti-intellectual, and he's certainly not incapable of studying. Wonder how much quiet rebellion came into it. Of course, it's also very... stereotypical. ~grin~ A combination, I think. Gavin seems far less likely to act on principal than Tim - handing his boss over to a killer aside - and I think he has a general weakness that makes telling lies an easy route out. He doesn't seem fond of confrontation - probably Peter and his father gave him enough of that at home. But I think Tim is pretty insecure too - he jumps to conclusions awfully fast - he's younger and pre-S5 at least (and sometimes afterwards) seems to have Gavin on a pedestal. And then... he *does* catch Gavin out in some pretty big lies. The two things probably feed each other. Oh, yes. But that would involve confrontation... Everything measures up except that I should think the Party would object to Tim... ~grin~ Sorry to blather on. I could discuss Gavin until the cows come home. |
|
Elf
Pool Attendant
Posts: 36
|
Post by Elf on Mar 21, 2005 19:00:54 GMT
just that his father is authoritarian and traditional and there's a good chance corporal punishment was used on the boys at least. Yes, I guess this is what I meant too. I see Gavin's father very much as the 'well it never did me any harm' school of corporal punishment. Yes, especially with the parents being in Fiji now. The family seem pretty scattered, and I don't think that's much of a surprise. I'm not at all surprised that Gavin never told them about Tim, and, given that G&T seem to have been living together for some years by this point, I assume that means they haven't seen each other face-to-face for a looooong time. Oh yes, definitely. There's an AU just waiting to be written there...what would have happened? ;D I'm not exactly sure what age he was 'sent away to relatives' (as it seems none of us are ) But he says he proposed on his 19th birthday, which suggests to me he was probably around 18 or so when 'sent away'. I assume that were he going to go to University this would be right around the time he'd be applying - or possibly taking his exams. I've always held a loose assumption that perhaps he didn't get his qualifications, in part quite possibly because he didn't really want to get them - rebellion, as you say - and in part because he missed out on his chance through whatever happened to him. I don't remember how many siblings he has, but I can imagine him avoiding confrontation from an early age - although he also shows that he can react angrily and violently quite quickly. The fight with Tim and punching Brittas both show this, I think. Yes, quite. Although maybe we're all meant to expect changes for the future...  Personally I can't see Gavin as a Tory - or, in fact, much enjoying any of the confrontation that comes with the job of Minister. And I imagine Tim's fame wouldn't help matters either! Hee! no worries - me too, as you can see! I love all this pop-psychology on characters who were never ever written to be studied this closely! Love Elf xx |
|
|
|
Post by Zusi on Jun 17, 2005 15:12:13 GMT
Getting back to the date issue, I don't think it's genuine lying about things. I know I graduated 9 years ago and would probably say that if asked, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't say 5 or 6 years as that's how long it feels. We moved into our house almost 8 years ago and have been married just over 7. If you ask my neighbour she will say about 4 or 5 for them despite the fact her son had just turned 2 when we moved in and was almost at the time I was married. It just depends on how long it feels.
Gavin may have known that his age at the time of Jenny's arrival back (obviously not cured) minus 19 was longer than he stated to Laura, but as he was feeling low and emotional and needed to talk to someone, he just said how long it felt.
Another reason for the continuity error could be the different writers (although this doesn't explain the change of Carol's twins names before S6).
I suppose we must remember that for each series a variable amount of time lapses between each episode and between each series. This is not a Soap and will not be following real time - hence Julie being pregnant for almost 2 years. Carol was pregnant just for one series, while Julie was pregnant for over one (latter half of S5 to start of S7).
I also think that most of all, it's a comedy programme not a documentary and therefore not 100% real, no matter how much we want it to be.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zusi on Jun 20, 2005 10:30:18 GMT
I actually got round to re-watching most of S4 at the weekend. Jenny tells Brittas that it's been 5 years (which Julie must overhear as she's the only other one who mentions time). Gavin tells Laura it was a long time ago (and is possibly too overwhemed to correct Julie).
Saying that, S7 ends with Brittas waking up after a dream involving everyone on a train and dreams are nortorious for discrepancies . . . .
I'll shut up now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jennifer on Jun 21, 2005 14:47:32 GMT
Saying that, S7 ends with Brittas waking up after a dream involving everyone on a train and dreams are nortorious for discrepancies . . . . I'll shut up now. No, no - don't shut up - that's a very true statement, there. I guess all the discrepancies can be overlooked as part of his rather confused little subconscious mind. I still don't like that fact that Laura was a complete figment of his imagination; having not been on the train at the end and all... |
|
|
|
Post by Zusi on Jun 22, 2005 8:46:03 GMT
I still don't like that fact that Laura was a complete figment of his imagination; having not been on the train at the end and all... Unless she had been on the train when he fell asleep and had subsequently left, which is why she left in the dream. Mind you, wasn't Linda just settling into her seat as a Nun . ? . |
|
|
|
Post by Kanna on Jun 22, 2005 13:05:02 GMT
I still don't like that fact that Laura was a complete figment of his imagination; having not been on the train at the end and all... It explains Angie, though. One person turns into another all the time in my dreams. I'm interested in the fact that in the one dream, he found it necessary to have so many people named Angie or Michael. |
|
Hotbeds of gossip though - especially if gossip is about a senior officer (As G's father would have been)
Personally I can't see Gavin as a Tory - or, in fact, much enjoying any of the confrontation that comes with the job of Minister. And I imagine Tim's fame wouldn't help matters either!
